Anna and Irene have been waiting in line for an hour or more, and they know they are still waiting for a long time.
“Two hours, three hours, ten hours – what’s the difference?” said Irena. “This is about eternity.”
They came to Rome from Slovenia, Catholics who felt “Papa Francis wanted us to be here”.
And under the sun outside Santa Maria Maggiore, they were waiting for the opportunity to visit their grave.
Francis, said Irena, “like a rainbow” which turned on the world. Anna nodded together: “We are very happy to be here.”
The pope’s grave has become a new source of pilgrimage.
More than 30,000 people came to see it on the first morning after the funeral of the whale, the queue extended from the front of the mighty bacillika and then up and down across the square behind.
Some are curious visitors, others are obedient followers – priests and nuns mixed in queues with tourists and local residents who are devoted.
All France admired; A few who really know him.
Father Alessandro Masseroni was a deacon who came to Rome to practice becoming a priest. On his phone, he showed me a photo of him and Francis, with the Pope offering words.
He said: “I have the honor to serve Pope Francis and talk to him many times and that is a special experience. I understand why he is so loved by everyone – he is simple and direct.
“He was bright. St Francis was his role model and when I saw the first picture of the pope’s grave, the first thing I thought was the tomb of St. Francis of Assisi.
“Pope Francis will leave heritage – it doesn’t end in his death but will continue.”
What’s your emotions now, because you are waiting to visit his grave, I ask. Father Alessandro stopped and smiled.
“Of course a lot of emotions, but especially, I think … thankfully.”
It has become a repeated aspect among so many people we have met in Rome over the past week – the feeling that the sadness of Francis’s death was greater than the feeling that he was a life that must be celebrated.
Volodymyr Borysyak flew from London in the morning of the pope’s funeral to make the third pilgrimage to Rome.
Almost not he arrived rather than his call was stolen, the crime he responded by praying for the thief.
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Volodymyr is a refugee from West Ukraine who is worried that the fate of his home country is being forgotten by several worlds.
Now, the Pope who inspired him has died.
You might imagine that he will be angry and angry. Instead, he was full of smiles.
“We are happy to be world pilgrims and this is a special day,” he told me. “I know that Pope used to pray in this Basilica that we will stay so long here to visit Santa Maria Maggiore.
“I think Pope Francis is, is and will be a pope for the world, because of his heart’s grace and love for everyone.”